Minutes of 2nd Internet meeting in Hong Kong

12 July 1995

Table of index




Notes of Second Meeting with Representatives of
the Computer and Information Industry
held on 12 July 1995 at OFTA Conference Room

PresentRepresenting
Mr A S K WongSenior Assistant Director, OFTA
Mr Eric LauTelevision and Entertainment Licensing Authority
Mr Mark Webb-JohnsonHouston Crest Co Ltd
Mr Enzo MichelangeliAssociation for Internet Resources
Mr James ChuChina Internet Corp Ltd
Mr Jeffrey VongInternet Access HK Ltd
Mr Kenny WanSprint International HK Ltd
Mr Chester SoongGlobal Information Networks Ltd
Mr Billy TamHong Kong Star Internet Ltd
Mr William NgInoac Software Ltd
Mr Wen LiuIBM China/HK Corp
Mr Albert LuHK Amateur Computer Comm Association
Mr Roger LauHK Internet & Gateway Services Ltd
Mr Matsuzaki YoshioNTT Data Communications Systems Corp
Mr Erwin HuangCreation Technology Ltd
Mr Alfred C L HoHKIE IT Division
Ms Angela CastroHKU Social Services Research Centre
Mr Ben MillerDemocratic Party
Mr Tannil LamTCL Technology Ltd
Mr Anthony AuABC Data & Telecom Ltd
Mr Cheng Che HooCUHK Computer Centre
Mr Aaron Y T CheungHongKongLink Comm Ltd
Mr Charles MokHKNet Co Ltd
Mr King Chung HoGlobal Link Information Services Ltd
Mr Graham MarshIDG Communications Ltd
Mr Y K HaOFTA
Mr S M KwanOFTA
Mr C L NgOFTA
Mrs Patsy WongOFTA

Mr A S K Wong welcomed Mr Eric Lau of Television and Entertainment Licensing Authority and all participants to the meeting. He said that the notes of the last meeting could be retrieved from OFTA's BBS in which plain text format was now available and could be accessed twenty four hours a day.

    Confirmation of the Notes of the last Meeting

  1. The notes of the last meeting held on 28 April 1995 were confirmed without amendment.

    Matters Arising

    Licensing Requirement for Non-Commercial Services

  2. In reply to the enquiry on whether the Telecommunications Authority (TA) would release another statement to clarify the licensing requirements for non-commercial bodies offering Internet service, Mr A S K Wong emphasized that as advised by the Attorney General's Chamber, the TA could not go beyond what had been stated in its last statement as it could only interpret the law as interpreted. Therefore, no blanket statement for non- commercial services could be issued. However, if operators had concerns about whether their systems required to take out licences, they might seek the TA's advice and the TA would consider them on a case by case basis.

  3. Mr A S K Wong further said that the current Telecommunication Ordinance would be subject to an overall review by the end of this year. Proposal for the review would be submitted to the Legislative Council in its next session. Telecommunications industry and advisory groups, including this forum, would be consulted on the draft Telecommunication Bill before submission to the Legislative Council.

    Validity of PNETS Licence

  4. Regarding concerns on the validity of Public Non-Exclusive Telecommunications Service (PNETS) licence after 30 June 1995, Mr A S K Wong said that amendments had been made to the legislation to remove the time bar of 30 June 1995. The particular clause in the licence had therefore been nullified and the individual licences would be amended upon annual renewal.

    Developments in Internet

  5. Mr A S K Wong invited participants to report on the developments or potential developments in Internet services.

    Hong Kong Internet Exchange

  6. Mr Cheng Che Hoo of CUHK said that The Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK) had initiated and coordinated a cooperative project called Hong Kong Internet Exchange (HKIX). The purpose of the project was to interconnect the Internet Access Providers (IAP) so that intra-Hongkong traffic could be exchanged locally without routing through the U.S. If any IAP would like to join HKIX, it was required to lease a dedicated line to CUHK with a router installed at CUHK. At present, no charge was required for provision of the service. Mr A S K Wong commented that it was a healthy development. He also shared his knowledge about a similar arrangement of interconnected Internet exchanges in Korea.

  7. Some participants showed interests in the possibility of setting up a second node for interconnection between IAPs as closed group and enquired about the licensing requirement. Mr A S K Wong replied that for those concerned IAPs being holders of PNETS licence, the same licence could apply and they just needed to inform the TA in writing. For someone without a licence, he should make an enquiry to OFTA to determine whether a licence was necessary.

    Internet Voice

  8. Mr A S K Wong said that it was noticed that software for voice communication over Internet had been publicly available and the OFTA was doing its own research in respect of regulatory concerns. At the moment, the first generation simplex voice communication over Internet using store and forward technology would unlikely be in breach of HKTI's exclusive rights in provision of international telephone services. Value added voice communication was allowed under PNETS licence and it was defined as anything not equivalent to real time conversation between humans.

  9. In reply to the question that who would be sued in case the Internet voice communication was found in contravention of the legislation, Mr A S K Wong said that the responsibility should be rested with the one who provided the service without the appropriate licence. Some participants were concerned that it was difficult to police such activities in view of the rapid development in technology and the software could be downloaded by the users themselves. Mr A S K Wong noted the concerns and invited participants to forward information on further development of Internet voice communication.

    Telecommunication Bill

  10. A participant said that due to the delay in the issue of the draft Telecommunication Bill, he wondered whether there would be sufficient time allowed for consultation. Mr A S K Wong said that the slippage was due to a substantial number of bills required to be drafted, he undertook to ensure that sufficient time would be allowed for consultation.

    Control of Message Content over Internet

  11. Some participants were concerned about the control of the content being sent over Internet by users. They proposed to solve the problem by licensing the information providers or abolishing licensing requirements for IAPs. Others commented that if all the IAPs were given common carrier status, they would not be liable to the contents sent. Mr A S K Wong said that there was no quick fix to this problem and he pointed out that there were also some other ordinances dealing with this issue, for instance, the Control of Obscene and Indecent Articles Ordinance (COIAO) (Cap 390).

  12. Mr Eric Lau of TELA explained that under COIAO (Cap 390), the publisher should be responsible for the content of articles published. However, in practice, it was difficult to find out who was the publisher in Internet transmission. In reply to the question whether IAPs would be prosecuted in that case, Mr Eric Lau said that it should be finally ruled by the court. Some participants asked whether instructions could be given to IAPs by the authorities before any action to be taken against them. Mr A S K Wong suggested that while there should be communications before any drastic action was taken, both the Government and the industry should consider how content control, if any, should apply to the dissemination of information by telecommunications. Participants in this forum were particularly urged to consider and propose practical solutions to overcome these problems.

    Internet Domain Name

  13. Mr A S K Wong informed the meeting that the TA had recently received a submission from the industry requesting him to consider whether his regulatory role over numbering should be expanded to include the Internet domain names. He would like to obtain views from the computer communications and information industry.

  14. In response to a question, Mr Cheng Che Hoo of CUHK explained that at present, Hong Kong Internet domain names were managed by the University and Polytechnic Computer Centre (UPCC) which was a consortium of seven universities in Hong Kong. CUHK was only managing the process on behalf of UPCC.

  15. Mr A S K Wong said that in view of the rapid increase in Internet users in the future, it was essential to manage the domain names orderly and there might be subsidiary concerns of name issues such as intellectual property issues. A participant expressed that he objected to the idea that the domain names to be put under the government's control as it was unfair to the late comers under the first- come-first-served principle. Mr Cheng Che Hoo of CUHK explained about the procedure for allocation of domain names by CUHK. After lengthy discussion, Mr A S K Wong invited submission of views on Internet domain name issues in writing. In case participants considered that the Intellectual Property Department should be consulted on the domain name issues, he would be pleased to arrange.

    Asia Pacific Information Infrastructure (APII)

  16. Mr A S K Wong briefed the meeting about the Seoul Declaration for the APII, copies of which were circulated to all participants in the meeting for information. The purpose of the circulation was to see whether anyone would be interested to participate in pilot projects or any other areas of work. The issues addressed in the Declaration were important for the development of the whole industry and OFTA would like to co-ordinate all the interests in Hong Kong for discussions in the Asia Pacific Economic Co- operation (APEC). Participants were encouraged to actively participate and any suggestions or comments should be sent to OFTA.

    Interconnection Standard

  17. Mr A S K Wong said that there were two aspects in interconnection standard; namely hardware and software. Since the fixed network operators would be able to provide a full broadband transmission network in a few years time, it was necessary to start work on the interconnection standards. He would like to seek inputs from the industry about standards to be adopted for broadband networks. Views from individuals as well as organizations were welcomed.

    Legislation Review

  18. Mr A S K Wong invited Mr Eric Lau of TELA to report on the review of the COIAO (Cap 390). Mr Eric Lau said that since the COIAO (Cap 390) was mainly concerned with regulation of publications, TELA was considering how to extend it to cover Internet services. Some participants suggested that overseas experience might be helpful. Mr A S K Wong commented that the review would need to take into consideration technological developments and balanced with the freedom of access to information. Any input from the industry would be welcomed.

    Review on PNETS Interconnect Charge

  19. A participant asked whether a separate committee would be formed to discuss the PNETS interconnect charge of 9 cents per minute. Mr A S K Wong replied that a consultation paper on the interconnect charges would be issued by OFTA in the next few months. After studying the consultation paper, should participants consider necessary, a sub- committee could be formed for further discussion. In the meantime, any views considered helpful for formulating the consultation paper could be submitted to OFTA. He also confirmed that papers already submitted to the Legislative Council panels would be taken into account.

    Any Other Business

    Segregated Services

  20. There were concerns that services offered under the PNETS 300 numbering range were all subject to the PNETS interconnect charge regardless of third party traffic or just information retrieval. Mr A S K Wong suggested that if service operators so wished, services regulated under PNETS licence and services not so regulated could be segregated. Non- PNETS lines could then be used for passing traffic not regulated by PNETS licence. Some commented that it would be inconvenient to users as two different series of numbers would be used for access to the same IAP. Mr A S K Wong said that this issue would be included in the review later this year.

    Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN)

  21. Some participants enquired about the position of OFTA in promoting ISDN. Mr A S K Wong said that it was not OFTA's usual style to promote a particular technology as OFTA had always preferred a technology neutral approach. The Hong Kong Government had established a conducing environment for introduction of new services. It was left to the network operators and service providers to decide whether a particular service should be introduced on their assessment of demand. He personally thought that it might be possible that Hong Kong could leap frog the narrow band ISDN and jump directly into broad band networks.

    Closing

  22. As there was no other business, Mr A S K Wong thanked all for their participation. The next meeting would be held in about two months and the exact date would be circulated to members later.



    12 July 1995